José Fonseca Fernandes
Maria and Mariana Gil, mother and daughter, are the guests of this episode of ‘O Tal Podcast’, to listen to in two parts. At the end of the first half of the conversation, which you can listen to here, we were about to hear one of the stories that mark a continuum of ethnic-racial clashes experienced by the family at school, the starting point for the second part of this episode, led by Georgina Angélica and Paula Cardoso.
“The twins were at preschool and they asked us: bring something to the Christmas party, that has to do with the place where they come from. I said: we live next door, we were born here”, says the mother of António, Salvador, Vicente and Mariana, remembering that, on this as on other occasions, she made a point of highlighting that her family is not limited to being here, because she is from here.
As if it wasn’t enough to be relegated to the status of a foreigner in her own country, Maria also had to endure the ostracization of her cultural heritage, when she proposed taking a gypsy sweet, typical of Christmas.
“Someone at school says: don’t do that to your children. You’ve seen that they’re so cute, so blonde. That way, everyone knows they’re gypsies.”
José Fonseca Fernandes
The circumstance of having to “go underground, to have access to what is legitimate”, as she mentioned in the first part of this conversation, does not, however, protect her from antigypsyism or racism, something she mentions in the second half of this episode of ‘O Tal Podcast’.
“Our leisure is an affront to everyone, it is criminalized. I, as a gypsy body, or a racialized body, sitting on a terrace, am doing nothing but living at the expense of others.”
Between the hypervisibilization that condemns, and the invisibilization that excludes, Mariana matures her gaze: “Resistance was imposed on me. I was born to exist and they forced me to resist.”
Following what she had mentioned in the first part of this episode, when she mentioned that activism has become unavoidable in her history, the Communication Sciences student shares the importance of bringing lightness to this combative daily life.
“I talked about cultural appropriation on television, and now I’m just in this place of militancy, of struggle, and anything that takes me away from that is frivolity or futility”, he points out, recalling his time in the Cabelo Pantene competition.
“I was fully aware that it was also my space”, he recalls, while insisting on the strength of self-love. “In kindergarten they said: you’re ugly, and I said: ok, have your opinion. Not everyone grows up with that self-esteem.”
José Fonseca Fernandes
Despite recognizing the effect of representation in this equation, the young woman makes a point of freeing herself from narratives of exceptionality. “I like it when people are inspired by what I say. I don’t like it when they say: Mariana, you’re going to save us, because I can’t save anyone without being saved myself.”
Determined to find her path of lightness and rest, which includes expectations of a politically and financially stable life, the student is adamant: “I don’t represent anyone. I present myself, and that can serve as representation, which are different things.”
The daughter’s plans intersect with her mother’s desires. “One of the great aspirations I have for Mariana is for her to be able to wake up without having to worry: ‘Am I going to wear the cape of ‘super warrior, super heroine’? Simply the power of choice.”
For now, the student remembers that the right to choose remains far from universal. “When you don’t come from a wealthy class, you have to think: am I going to college, does that mean postponing maybe three years of work, but if I choose the course well, will it give me money right away?”
Listen to the conversation with Georgina Angélica and Paula Cardoso here.
José Fonseca Fernandes
Tal Podcast is a weekly podcast dedicated to interpersonal relationships and human affection. Through in-depth conversations with notable guests, the podcast reveals an original narrative and opens the doors to an international community of reflection and interest.
A pioneer in black and Afro-descendant culture in Portugal, it is a space where all lives fit, emotionally linked by experiences of trial and stories of humanization.
In long unscripted conversations, Georgina Angélica and Paula Cardoso present special guests, in new episodes, every Thursday on the Expresso, SIC and SIC Notícias websites or any podcast platform.
Tiago Pereira Santos with Nuno Fox
Georgina Angelica is a specialist in Education and Social Intervention. She works as an educator, trainer and speaker, with more than 20 years of experience in Portugal, England and Angola.
Paula Cardoso is the founder of the network Afrolink and author of the children’s book series ‘Força Africana’. She is also the presenter of the TV program “Rumos”, broadcast on RTP África.
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